This is a selfish interview on my part. I’ve been wanting to pick Steven Baird’s writer-brain since I began following his blog a couple years ago. I love his writing, his fresh, lush imagery, his exquisite word choice. I picked up his book Ordinary Handsome and then his book A Very Tall Summer. I became a groupie. My review of Ordinary Handsome is here.
So, I convinced him to answer all my questions under the pretense of a blog interview. I hope you enjoy!
1. Welcome, Steven. Thanks so much for letting me satisfy my curiosity about you and your writing. You state in your bio that you started writing at age 10. But you didn’t publish until 2015. What took you so long?
That’s a good question. I have written a lot over the years, submitted some manuscripts, did some editing work, but nothing clicked. So I focused on improving the writing, experimenting with different genres, shifting pov’s, playing with the language. I wanted to see what I could do. It took some time because I am so self-critical. I had a lot of uncertainty and self-doubt, and that can be crippling. What did I have to offer, and was it worth the reader’s time? And now, yes, I think I do have something to offer.
When I started as a kid, I was cribbing off writers I admired, unconsciously mimicking their styles, and it was a terrible hybrid. The first attempt at a novel was after I read ‘To Kill a Mockingbird’. Man, I dug into that… the story, the cadence, the narration, everything. And then Hemingway’s ‘The Old Man and the Sea’. And then Faulkner’s ‘The Sound & the Fury’. My writing was awful, as you can imagine, but I was so excited! It was a melange of enthusiasm and bad writing! But it was a learning experience. I was putting things down on paper! In those days, that meant typing on a portable Brother typewriter… reams of paper and gallons of White-Out, and carbon copies of everything. It took a long time to physically prepare a submittable manuscript.
Back then, I sent out almost everything to publishing houses and magazines, and collected piles of ‘unfortunately, your work doesn’t meet our criteria’ rejection slips. Stories to Reader’s Digest, Field and Stream, and, yes, even Playboy. I kept at it. They should have sent me Christmas cards, I was that persistent. I published a couple of short stories in regional magazines, and poetry and weird little vignettes. I wrote a weekly humor column for the newspaper I was working for, and that lasted ten years until I gave it up… humor is a hard gig! Eventually, I found the whole ordeal of writing-and-rejection discouraging, and stopped writing anything substantial for about five years. My confidence was shot. And then I started again, working on a novel called ‘The Penitent Thief’. It was abrasive, violent, vulgar, and I fell back into it with gusto.
Self-confidence has always been an issue with me, and I couldn’t quite come up with a tone I was happy with. I have at least a dozen or more trunk novels stored away, and probably twice that number of unfinished pieces. I was learning.
I wrote a novel called ‘Cronic’ shortly after I was married. It’s available on Amazon, and it’s an unusual, violent story of a kidnapping. Creatively, it’s a transitional novel. I really played around with the dialogue and settings, and discovered a more confident, rollicking voice. And then I wrote – after a few false starts – ‘Ordinary Handsome’. That was the one. I decided to completely rework the core concept of ‘The Penitent Thief’. My voice was calmer, and the only similarities between the two are the main character – Jimmy Wheat – and the consequences of a tragic getaway, how they spread into other people’s lives. I couldn’t have written Handsome as a younger man. I didn’t have the experience or maturity.
2. I remember the old typewriters and correction tape. I don’t think I would have had your persistence without the advent of personal computers. I’m thrilled that you kept with it. What do you enjoy most about writing? What do you dislike?
I love those moments when it all clicks… when all the elements come together. I like how it still surprises me. How those big ‘what if’ ideas take shape and add texture and dimension. Honestly, I don’t know where the ideas come from, but sometimes they’re like bursts of fireworks, real ‘wow!’ moments. I didn’t know for certain how to end Handsome until I was closing in on the ending. Then it hit me, and I wrote the last couple of thousand words in a single sitting. It’s a huge rush when it works.
What I dislike is my own uncertainty. Can this work, is there enough of a story to sustain it, do I have the chops? Beginning a new book is hard because you’re still high from the last one. You have to invest so much of yourself: time, energy, and heart. It’s sort of like trying to fall in love again, and with this stranger who smiles and then shrugs. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.
3. One of the things that impressed me about your prose is your precise word choices and rich sensory imagery. Does that come naturally or do you have to work on it? Any tips on writing prose that you’d be willing to share?
Well, I really don’t like cliches. Everything’s been said that’s going to be said, so why not find an interesting way to say it? I’m selective and patient. Does it come naturally? At this point, I think so, yes, but after years of practice. The words are the ingredients in the stew, and I want that stew to have the right flavor. I play around with a lot of flash fiction pieces. Snapshots of characters and conversations. It’s a great exercise… there’s that freedom of not having to plot or finesse. And they’re great for coming up with larger, more substantial ideas.
4. I agree completely on the freedom of flash fiction – it’s all the fun without the labor. You describe yourself as a slow writer. Tell me about your process. Do you use a particular structure? Pantser or outliner?
I guess a little of both. Before I start, I let the idea grow in my head. Think about the characters, the setting, the overall story… map it out until it gels into something workable. Sometimes it’s a particular image: A woman standing alone in a cornfield; a boy dying at the side of a road. They capture my attention and I want to see more. I don’t write outlines, but I do develop the story in my head. Sometimes it pans out, sometimes not. I make cheat sheets on the characters, phrases, the geography of the landscape. I don’t have specific endings in mind, because I want it to be natural and not tacked-on or forced. I follow my instincts, and I trust my characters to take me to there.
When I write, I edit what I’m doing after the chapter is done. Immediately. Strip it down, tighten the bolts. I don’t like to open the document the next day and see messy, rambling copy. I cut a lot of the extraneous stuff, and there is a lot. I’m merciless.
5. Another thing I enjoy about your writing is that you write with an incredibly tight point of view. The result is almost no narrative backstory. Instead, the story percolates up through the characters’ (often unreliable) memories and perceptions. Tell me about this choice and how you balance the tight pov with your readers’ need for cohesion.
Well, thank you, Diana. It’s just the way that fits me, I guess. I know the characters very well, and I like to focus on what they’re seeing and feeling. Their past is a catalyst to how they react, and it feels more fluid if it’s revealed along the way. I want the reader to share the characters’ journey, involve them in the intimacy of the story rather than handing it out in large blocks.
I’m not really a complicated writer, but I try to weave the story so everything stitches together in the end. Sometimes a little reading patience is necessary, but if the reader is engaged, I think it’s worth the trip. So I have to make it engaging… through the characters, the mood, the flow of the story. Create empathy and believability. I think I do that.
6. That reader patience definitely pays off! I noticed a common theme in character and setting in Ordinary Handsome and A Very Tall Summer. Both have characters struggling with poverty in rural settings. Tell me about this choice and how it’s meaningful to you.
I’m familiar with poverty, or at least living paycheck-to-paycheck. I grew up with it and still struggle. I’m a working-class guy. I know these people; I played with them as a kid, I’ve worked with them, I’ve gone hungry with them. It’s real stuff. There’s no pretension: this is who I am, this is what I do, this is how I survive. Those are stories I’m interested in. There’s no abstraction in being poor. There’s grit, but there are also huge dreams, huge courage.
7. The grit, dreams, and courage comes through and gripped me as a reader. Both books I’ve read have a ghostly quality or “thin grasp on reality.” This gives your books a paranormal feel, but they’re more than that. How would you characterize your books? What kind of reader would enjoy them?
I’d like to say I write literary fiction, but that sounds so fancy-pants. It’s not really supernatural or paranormal, but I’ve used those elements. I do like the concept of employing a dream-like reality, where these people have a fragile understanding of what’s going on, how they’re looking for the core of what it means. I think there’s a deep romanticism in the characters – and in me… a yearning for something better, something with a solid foundation. Literary fiction, I guess, is probably the broadest category to describe it. I hope any readers would come away with something that will stay with them for awhile, that it will be something relatable.
8. Your books do stick with a reader. I’m proof of that. Any advice for aspiring writers?
Read tons. Write tons. Believe in what you’re writing. Write what interests you, not just what’s popular or current. Learn the fundamentals: grammar, spelling, and punctuation. Don’t be afraid to fail… the more you write, the better you’ll become. Be daring!
9. What are you working on now?
It’s a fairly ambitious project titled ‘The Stone Age’. It’s set in the ’70’s, about three children growing up in Upstate New York. The title refers to a terrifying incident that happens to them that sets their childhood in stone and establishes who they become as adults. There’s love, betrayal, and a very human monster who shapes their lives. I’ve wanted to write something about childhood for a long time, about all its frailties and innocence, and how it fades into adulthood but never completely leaves. I can’t say more than that, but I think it’s going to be pretty substantial book.
10. Give us a teaser for one of your books.
This one comes from “Ordinary Handsome”. It’s a few quiet moments between the main character Jimmy and his dying wife. His confidence is badly shaken after a botched getaway, and his heart is breaking.
I kissed Arlene goodnight. The room was shrouded with blankets and black curtains. A dull 40-watt light bulb constantly shone on her night table, displaying a cluster of pill bottles and cups of stale water. Her forehead was warm, and her hair dull and fine. Her breathing was steady but shallow. The skin on her face looked too tight. And her hair smelled like black tea. I don’t remember if that was its natural smell or if it’s just a never-ending memory, a smell concocted from the drugs and the sweat of dying. I think her hair always had that smell, and it was something always uniquely Arlene. I don’t remember a time when she wasn’t dying.
I can’t tell you how much my heart broke with every goodnight kiss. I sat beside her for a few minutes each night and stroked her hair. I don’t know if she knew I was there, or even sensed it, but it calmed me. I would cup the side of her face and, though it was always damp and somehow greasy, I could feel the soft underneath-skin, the skin I caressed and kissed and marveled over. Minutes would turn to more minutes until I was afraid to leave her, afraid to stay. I don’t know that I had the courage to see her – feel her – die in my presence. I think that kind of courage was beyond me. But I would. I wanted her last physical perception to be my hand stroking her hair, with a kindness that let her know I was still amazed that she chose to be with me at all.”
Steven Baird – Short Bio
Steven Baird is an author, amateur photographer, and 36-year newspaper compositor. He does not like speaking of himself in the first person. He has published three novels, including his latest, A Very Tall Summer, and has been writing since the age of 10. He is a slow writer.
Steven is a native Canadian living in southwest Virginia with his wife Angela, a horse, dog, cat, and a Neurotic Band of Chickens (their official stage name). He does not take himself as seriously as his portrait would suggest.
Link to Steven’s Amazon Page: Here
Steven’s Blog: Ordinary Handsome
Twitter: @SMBairdOrd
I love Steven Baird’s writing… and have been always glad to come across his work in my wordpress reader….
Thanks for this in-depth and insightful interview with someone I admire….
Steven – you inspire so many with your work 🙂
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Thanks so much for the visit. I’m an avid fan of his work and was delighted to pick his brain a bit 🙂
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Thank you, Santosh. That’s very kind of you. 🙂
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Some very good advice I received here. Thanks for the visit.
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Thanks for the visit, Deepak. I’m glad you enjoyed it and found something that resonated 🙂 Have a great day!
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Thank you, Deepak, I’m glad you liked it. 🙂
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Diana, this is a terrific interview with Steven – incisive questions and wonderfully thought out answers. The lack of self-confidence is an issue many writers can identify with, Steven talks about it here with eloquence and honesty. Lovely to ‘meet’ Steven here, loved the snippet from his book and for a closer look at his website now.
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Thank you, Annika. I think self-confidence is an issue with many (but not all) writers. It pushes me to work a little harder, and it can be exhausting. Maybe that’s why I’m a slow writer. Thanks for your visit and the follow. 🙂
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I love his writing, Annika. If you pick up one of his books, you won’t be disappointed 🙂 Thanks so much for visiting. Hope your summer is winding up well. ❤
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Your enthusiastic stamp of approval is more than enough for me, Diana – I’m getting one of his books to read later this summer. Can’t wait – the writing from this extract alone had me captivated. Summer is going great; back in the UK for a week before heading to Florida for a couple of wonderful weeks of ‘girl-only’ time for my mother and I. So excited but super busy sorting and preparing for this big trip.Hope the summer is a special one for you too. 😀😃
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I started with Ordinary Handsome and went from there, Annika. An awesome read. 🙂 Have fun in Florida with your mom. That sounds fun and relaxing. Florida is beautiful ❤
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I love getting insights into other writers’ processes. Thanks for making me aware of Steven’s work, Diana!
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Your welcome, Sean. His writing is stunning. I hop you get a chance to try on of his books. 😀
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Thanks Sean, I appreciate it. And thanks for following my blog! :
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Great interview, Steven. Thanks for being so thorough and interesting in your answers to Diana’s questions. Best wishes for your work now and in future. Thanks, Diana, for bringing us this interview. You asked some great questions. 🙂 — Suzanne
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Thanks for reading, Suzanne. Steven is one of my favorite writers, so it was a pleasure getting to pick his brain a bit. Have a lovely week, my friend 🙂
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You’re welcome. May you and yours have a lovely week also, Diana. 🙂 — Suzanne
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[…] Another Note: I completely forgot to include in my Interview of Steven Baird the link to his blog. So, here it is: Ordinary Handsome. Definitely worth checking out (After you […]
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What a great interview, Diana! And great insight into such a wonderful writer’s process. Great questions, great answers, and fun!
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Having read a couple of his books helped me get more specific regarding his process and choices. It was totally selfish on my part, Julie. 🙂 Have a great week.
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Thank you, Julie. It was a fun interview. Diana asked some terrific questions, and I enjoyed tagging along. 🙂
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Brilliant questions, Diana! You always give an author an opportunity to shine! 🙂
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Thanks so much. I love raving, Inese, and Steven’s writing blows me away. Have a wonderful week ❤
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Thanks so much. The questions were thoughtful and insightful… it was a terrific opportunity, and I’m grateful for it. 🙂
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What a great interview! I thoroughly enjoyed the collaboration of two of my favorite blog people in one spot. Also, Diana, I think your blog layout is quite nice. The peaches are fabulous.
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Thank you, Jane. I hope you’ve been enjoying a restful summer, and look forward to when you resume your blog. You know I’m a fan! 🙂
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Thanks, Steve! Summer is going well, and quickly! I am looking forward to Fall more than usual for some reason. I like to make soup and eat squash :-). I am scheduling some vacation time for the Fall, also.
I am going to try to put something up on the blog by the end of the weekend. I think “resuming” will have a different meaning for me in the future. I don’t think I could ever go back to being as active as I was. I had a few years worth of writing saved up before I ever started the blog. Once I put those pieces up, along with some pieces I wrote on the spot, I realized I was no way going to be able to keep posting and interacting at that pace.
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Oh, I understand that. I’ve cut back on my blogging to a couple of times a week because I really want to focus on this book. But I still check my email and visit the sites I’m following. And there are so many other things… maintaining a garden, tending to the chickens, my job, etc. Not enough hours in the day, it seems. And of course, family first. 🙂
It has been a hot summer, the hottest since I moved to Virginia 9 years ago. I’m looking forward to fall, too. My favorite time of years to go crazy with the camera.
And hey, enjoy your vacation!
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Thanks Jane. So glad you’ve already connected with Steven. His blog is a perfect teaser for his books, which obviously I recommend. (Thanks for the compliment on the blog. Peaches for another 11 days – until the full moon). Hope you are well, my friend. ❤
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😄
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Wow, what a fabulous interview! Thanks for introducing us To Steven and his writing. I’m dashing off to Amazon pronto. I enjoyed the writing of the excerpt here and the premise of his books. 🙂
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So glad you liked it, Debby. I love his writing and really wanted to learn more about his thoughts and process. Happy Reading 🙂
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Well thanks for sharing it here on your page. 🙂
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Thanks so much, Debby. It’s always thrilling to meet a fellow Canadian writer. I hope you enjoy it. 🙂
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Thank you Steven. I may take awhile to get to on my dreaded TBR but eventually I’ll get there and be sure to review. 🙂
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I know how that goes, so no worries. 🙂
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🙂
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Awesome interview, Steven and Diana both! I love Steven’s vivid imagery, and I totally agree about the freedom of writing flash. Thanks so much for sharing this. 🙂
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Thanks for reading, Cathleen. Steven’s imagery and mastery of language is what drew me to his books 🙂 Glad you enjoyed the interview.
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Thanks so much, Cathleen. I really appreciate your comments. Diane came up with such interesting questions and it gave me the chance to really think about the how’s-and-why’s of my writing. It was an enlightening experience. 🙂
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Since I started following ‘ Myths Of Mirror’ this is the first interview and you have done a wonderful job Diana. Thanks for sharing the excerpt but who puts black curtains? 🙂 probably they have been mentioned to darken the tone of the narration! Seems intriguing.
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I did a couple interviews years ago when I started, but this is the only recent one. Thanks for the compliment, Balroop. It was entirely selfish on my part! Ha ha. Have a great weekend, my friend. 😀
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Thank you, Balroop. Diane gave me a great list of questions and it took quite some time to really think about my answers. I was thrilled when she asked me. 🙂
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You did a great job of picking his brain, lol. Great interview. Between that and the excerpt, leaves me wanting to read both books.
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Oh good! I think you’ll enjoy them. I’d recommend starting with Ordinary Handsome and go from there. I wanted Steven’s secret formula, but I think it’s just hard work. 🙂 Thanks for the visit and have a great weekend.
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Thank you and have a great weekend as well 😊
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Thank you, Janni. Yes, my brain was picked clean. But it was fun. 🙂
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Wonderful interview, Diana. I’ve been a fan of Steven’s for a while now. He certainly is a gifted writer and always inspires me. 🙂
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Thanks for the visit, Kelly. He is an amazing author. Lots of emotion in his work, just like yours 🙂
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Oh Diana – I can only wish someday for that to be true, but thank you. You are such a generous soul to bloggers, writers, and authors. xo
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Thanks so much, Kelly. You do draw a lot of emotion in your poetry… you have a remarkable talent, and I always enjoy reading your posts. 🙂
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Wow, Steven. You just made my night! Thank you so much! Hope you have a great weekend! 🙂
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You’re welcome. Hope yours is wonderful. 🙂
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What a wonderful interview!!! I am definitely looking forward to reading this author, thank you Diana for the introduction. 🙂
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You’re welcome, Kathryn. My favorite author of 2015 and a quality of writing I aspire to. Have a wonderful weekend, my friend. 🙂
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You too my dear! xo
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Reblogged this on Ordinary Handsome and commented:
A big thank you to D. Wallace Peach for giving me the opportunity to talk about my writing. She suggested the idea a couple of months ago, and I jumped right on it. Her enthusiasm and support for my work has been incredible, and I’m grateful for the chance to talk about something I love. I’m a soft-spoken, shy person, but I long ago discovered that my strongest and bravest voice was through the written word. So if you’re interested in seeing what’s under the hood, read on. And please visit Diana’s blog, https://mythsofthemirror.com. She’s an amazing story teller, writer, and friend.
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Awe. Thanks for the sweet intro, Steven. Happy to rave about your work! 🙂
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Well, needless to say, I’m very encouraged by the interview and comments, so thank you again. 🙂
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Inspiring. Intelligent. Intriguing. These are the first “I” words that come to mind. Oh, and then IMPRESSIVE. I loved the questions you ask, Diana, and the deep, confident, vulnerable answers from Steven. Writing is a hard long-term process. And oh yes, I wouldn’t be able to write the stories I write now – 20 years ago. I needed the ‘stewing’ time. Oh, and I love Steven’s humor – the mags, like Reader’s Digest and Playbook, shoulda sent him Christmas cards. 🙂
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Thanks so much. A sense of humor is all important. Otherwise I might have a career writing pamphlets for the Chamber of Commerce, and signing autographs for the Firemen’s Ladies’ Auxiliary. Which doesn’t sound too bad, actually. 🙂
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Like I said – a great sense of humor. 🙂
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🙂
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Thanks for visiting, Pam. I started writing late in life too, so it was one of the questions I had to ask, besides drilling him for his secrets (bwa ha ha ha). I hope you get a chance to read one of his books. 🙂 Have a great weekend!
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Diana, a big bald-headed thank you for the opportunity to answer a few questions about something I love doing. Writing is such a solitary activity, and I’m so pleased to see how warmly it’s being received. I can’t adequately express how much I appreciate your support and enthusiasm for my work… your encouragement alone tells me that I’m doing something right. Thank you again, my friend. 🙂
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You are so welcome. I’m glad you were able to pop over and meet a whole bunch of potential readers! 🙂
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It was a lot of fun… and so many wonderful comments! I’m amazed. 🙂
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What an interesting post, thank you for sharing. I liked how he talked about the way he wrote when he was little. Copying famous writers and their style is an art that is hard to master. I learned it when I started translating books, while some styles suit me, others don’t.
Great interview! Lots of information, much to think about.
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That’s right. How interesting that you did something similar in translation. I never considered that. I would say that Steven developed his own style and as a reader/writer I was mesmerized 🙂 Thanks for the visit!
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I love visiting your blog 🙂
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Likewise, my dear. 🙂
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Thanks for your comment! I never mastered the art of copying other authors. I went through a major Stephen King period, and, though he’s fairly easy to imitate, it just wasn’t me.
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You’re welcome!
I enjoyed it and I am looking forward to read more. Nice to meet you.
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And nice to meet you. I look forward to visiting your blog when I catch my breath. 🙂
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Awesome interview!
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Thanks, Lynn. These are second best to sitting down over a cup of coffee, which I often wish I could do with my blog pals. Including you. Have a lovely day, my friend. 🙂
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Awwwe lovely
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Thanks so much, Lynn! 🙂
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most welcome!
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🙂
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Diana, your interview questions brought out the best in this interesting author! The book excerpt was enticing! I can see why you like his writing so much. I’m sold. Have to check his books out. 💛 Elizabeth
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I would start with Ordinary Handsome. You’ll be hooked 🙂 Thanks for the visit, Elizabeth!
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Thank you, Elizabeth. I thought Diana’s questions were terrific. It took me awhile to answer her questions. I never really gave much thought to how I write, and so had to give it some serious consideration. It was an enlightening experience. 🙂
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Steven, it was good to know your writing process! I try to figure out what is best, to outline or not. Most of my story organization is in my head with note taking. Seems to work! 🎭 Christine
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Thanks for the visit, Elizabeth. It sounds like your process is similar to Steven’s. As an outliner, I don’t know how either of you do it. 🙂 Either way, happy writing!
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Diana, I might think about an outline as I progress in the book, just to be sure all part of the story are in their proper place. I wouldn’t want the inciting incident to be too soon or too late! 😒E
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I think many “pantsers” outline in their heads, Elizabeth, and may even jot something down once the book is underway. I love how we all find what works individually. It’s part of the fun about writing and talking about writing (which I can do for hours!). 🙂
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I don’t think there’s a right or wrong way, but I always preferred to see the story play out in my head. I take notes because sometimes the small details get missed. I’m so glad to know that I’m not the only one who organizes that way. 🙂
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DWP, it’s always a good day when I open my reader file and Steven is there. Often two or three times! I’m a fan of his writing but have to admit the photos reach out to me, tell me a lot about him and life. I get his country tone and texture. Thank you for “exposing” Steven to us.
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You’re welcome, Mike. I love his photos too, but his prose is inspiring to me. I couldn’t wait to pick his brain! Ha ha. Thanks for the visit. 🙂
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Aww, thanks Mike. It’s always a pleasure to see your name show up, too. I appreciate it! 🙂
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I thoroughly enjoyed reading the interview. It makes me want to go and purchase his books. Thank you for introducing writers who I most likely would miss if it were not for blogs like this.
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Thanks for the visit, Christina. Steven’s books were the best I read in 2015. A wonderful story teller. I hope you pick one up and give it a try! Happy Weekend, my friend. 🙂
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Thanks so much, Christina. I appreciate it! 🙂
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A fine interview D. Thank you for introducing me to this author and his writing.
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Thanks for reading, Holly. Steven’s imagery is certainly poetic. I think you would like his work 🙂
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Oh, I am quite sure, I must look further into his writing, thank you again D :)<3
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Thanks so much for commenting… I appreciate it very much. 🙂
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Enjoyed reading this. It’s been a pleasure visiting your blog each time. 🙂
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Thank you for all your visits. Steven is a mesmerizing author, and I’m happy to feature him. 😀 Have a lovely day, and I look forward to your next post!
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Many thanks. Have a lovely weekend.
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Thanks for reading. 🙂
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Thank you – and for following my blog, Steven Its a great honour.
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You’re so welcome, and thank you!
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Great interview Diana! I enjoyed the teaser from “Ordinary Handsome” Steven!
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Thanks for reading, Antonia. I definitely recommend Steven’s books. They are completely immersive 😀 Have a great day!
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I love books you can get lost in. I will definitely check them out. You too 😀
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Thank you, Antonia! I’m glad that you liked it. 🙂
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Hi, Diana and Steven. This is a fantastic interview, both the questions and answers. I loved the excerpt, Steven.
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Thanks so much for reading, Mary. I LOVE Steven’s writing and feel like I learn something about the craft every time I read his work. I really did want to pick his brain 🙂 🙂
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Thanks so much, Mary. Diana came up with some terrific and challenging questions. It was a pleasure working on it. 🙂
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